Curse

nihilous · Oct 05, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

If they do add dwarfs in Chapter 2 will the females have beards?

/ponder

KvanCetre · Oct 05, 2005, 08:10 PM // 20:10

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

strange I was expecting a serious thread and not reams of immature dribble which serves to prove nothing, except that immaturity and a lack of education tends to go together.

Welcome to the internet.

Tell me, where did you get your PhD from?

akadvance · Oct 06, 2005, 01:26 AM // 01:26

Although it really hurts to say this (since I have played stealth/agi/ <rogues/assasins/ninjas> my whole life in MMORPGs) I think it wouldn't be the best idea to make a class like this, unless Anet can find a way to balance it or make this class take huge amounts of skill. If you take the game called Ragnarok Online which I've have played since Beta 1 (roughly about 4-5 years ago?), the Rogue and Assasin are powerful BUT their cloaks can be countered, they usually have the lowest HP / Health and very little Energy to use their skills.
A bard class wouldn't be bad but the reason people love guild wars is probably because they have some classes that are very unique. The Necromancer for example. I think only Diablo had a Necromancer from what i know... Bard is quite unique too.

All in all, I think we need at least one, a few if possible healing / support classes. Maybe a priest that could also duplicate the monk but they gotta find ways to think of differences...Maybe a Druid or Shaman type guy who is more into the dark arts...Why not another Melee class such as a guy who can fight with his fists (using gloves, knuckles)...maybe a blacksmith / alchemist class?....Why not a guy that rides on animals (maybe something like a mounted knight)..but all in all, we need 1.) support / healers and 2.) we need melee!

Network · Oct 06, 2005, 02:42 AM // 02:42

Quote:

Originally Posted by akadvance

Although it really hurts to say this (since I have played stealth/agi/ <rogues/assasins/ninjas> my whole life in MMORPGs) I think it wouldn't be the best idea to make a class like this, unless Anet can find a way to balance it or make this class take huge amounts of skill. If you take the game called Ragnarok Online which I've have played since Beta 1 (roughly about 4-5 years ago?), the Rogue and Assasin are powerful BUT their cloaks can be countered, they usually have the lowest HP / Health and very little Energy to use their skills.
A bard class wouldn't be bad but the reason people love guild wars is probably because they have some classes that are very unique. The Necromancer for example. I think only Diablo had a Necromancer from what i know... Bard is quite unique too.

All in all, I think we need at least one, a few if possible healing / support classes. Maybe a priest that could also duplicate the monk but they gotta find ways to think of differences...Maybe a Druid or Shaman type guy who is more into the dark arts...Why not another Melee class such as a guy who can fight with his fists (using gloves, knuckles)...maybe a blacksmith / alchemist class?....Why not a guy that rides on animals (maybe something like a mounted knight)..but all in all, we need 1.) support / healers and 2.) we need melee!

Thats what monks are for! lol, we dont need another support class or healers.

Xiombarg · Oct 06, 2005, 10:10 AM // 10:10

well i think most people agree with this.. another combat class.. i dont know which will be introduced but i realy think another combat class will be added.. too many spell casters make it hard for warriors.. wait.. it already has lol sort of..

Rome

βlitzkrieg · Oct 06, 2005, 10:27 AM // 10:27

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiombarg

hey everyone ive just read another forum talking about chapter 2.. and i though i might make this forum to ask what everyone is thinking about what new classes there will be? i think a asssassin of some kind would be awesome maybe like receives double damage attacking from behind and maybe has 25% natural dodge or something.. it could be a nice balance witha warrior build.. but maybe a few things would only be for rogue primary i think maybe something like this
Attributes
Speed: primary only (to do with attacking fast and backstabbing skills)
Stealth: skills which conceal location to monsters and more attacking skills)
Dagger Mastery: using dagger skills and naturally increasing damage for them
Throwing: lol this is cheesy.. throwing knife skills, alot of fast attacking skills and disrupting, what does everyone think? would it be a good balance for chapter 2?
thanks everything
Rome.

You've basically described the Rogue class from WoW...

I don't know what they could add into the game at this point - it'll be interesting.

Asplode · Oct 06, 2005, 11:01 AM // 11:01

I don't exactly favor the idea of a class that's "powerful but takes skill to use", or maybe the other types of suggestions "powerful but has counters", because then you lead to the ether renewal conundrum, a dead horse argument where the people defending it said that it's balanced because of its counters (interrupts and stripping), or its requirements (juggling multiple enchantments and spamming spells).

If you have a class that deals tremendous damage, attacks very fast, and is difficult to kill, "but takes skill to use", you're ultimately asking for an unbalanced class for a narrow band of the population to use. It's difficult to notice when it's so subtly described, but let me exaggerate the same points for you:
Let's say we have an "Assassin" class, that can use some form of stealthing to sneak by his enemies, he moves at half speed while doing this, but if he's stealthed, and attacking from behind his enemy, he can backstab them for roughly 200 damage, with 50% armor penetration because they'd obviously stab around a person's armor. Of course this is unbalanced, but people can say that in the heat of battle, moving at half speed makes it incredibly difficult to get behind someone.

The second argument, that something is balanced because it has counters, is flawed as thus: if the counter to your skill (or in this case a new class) is too narrow-banded, that is, the counter to your character class is too specific in that the same counter will not be useful against other classes or strategies and thus isn't worth bringing in your build, or maybe even disadvantages you against other builds, then you lose balance.
Let's revisit our "Assassin" class. Let's say rangers got a new stance called "awareness", which will let them see all assassins for a certain amount of time, at a certain radius depending on their wilderness survival. If your ranger isn't wilderness based, the assassins can simply learn to avoid you for a short time, especially now that you can see your enemy's stances. Not only that, but if this is the only way to detect assassins (note that it doesn't prevent their backstabs, just gives you a head start on reacting), your monks or other soft targets need to take ranger subclass and spec in wilderness, and even then it won't last long enough or have a long enough duration to ward them off indefinately. Even if being a wilderness ranger is part of your build, you might have wanted to use serpent's quickness or another beneficial stance in its place. Additionally, if there aren't even any assassins on the opposing team, your countermeasures are moot, and a waste of a skill slot, attribute points, and subclass, giving your team a crippling disadvantage from the get go.

Anyway, that's my argument against stealth/assassin/rogue, or any other "takes skill to play" or "powerful but counterable" type character classes.

momo2oo2 · Oct 06, 2005, 11:12 AM // 11:12

Quote:

Originally Posted by Snowman

strange I was expecting a serious thread and not reams of immature dribble which serves to prove nothing, except that immaturity and a lack of education tends to go together.

Well, GW is intended to be a game, which is fun. Humor is fun. I don't see why some humor means immaturity. I find making someone laugh is pretty difficult (apart from dumb humor like in Hot Shots).

P.D. Don't take things so serious. We are here for fun, not for getting a degree in GW physics

Lexar · Oct 06, 2005, 11:24 AM // 11:24

I think i'm onto something here, and this class is perfect for dwarves, and maybe as a secundary for humans: the forgemaster or weaponsmith. Now before you think this isn't going to work in a battle, herein lies the new factor it would add to the gameplay: he can change the weapons of teammates on the fly, during battles. For example very overpowerfull weapons that last 2 hits, or change different elements of the weapons, to change according to whatever spirits are in the game (greater conflag for example, or ward against ele, change the sword to physical damage). Or even more interesting would be weapons that have a risk for either the forgemaster or the wielder, if you miss, you break the weapon, and one of the two recieves damage. His attributes could be like this: The primary exclusive attribute would be something to reduce the damage and risk of what happens when an attack fails, and the other 3 could be skills to make different weapons: all purpose warrior weapons, bows, or staffs. Before you think this is going to be a warrior support class only, consider this: a staff is ranged, and with some sort of extra powerfull high risk attack, it could be much more effective to kill other characters than running up to the target. of course the graphics would have to be very splashy so that everyone can easily see who has a changed weapon. The problem is that to make this enjoyable, you need a lot of weapon graphics, which takes a lot of time to model and texture.

Another class would be contractors. They would draw on powers of the different gods to get long lasting low efficiency team spells to only slightly increase stats of all teammates. For example a skill that would raise the attribute up one point, but maxed at 14 instead of 16 or higher. But asking favors of the gods comes with a price, when the contractor dies, maybe he has to pay for his contracts, and be impossible to resurrect for a set amount of time, for every contract he made, it adds 20 seconds. And of course gods will only grant one contractor his contract at a time, so if a contractor on the enemy team casts the contract after yours, something complicated should happen. Maybe it would undo the first contract, and because the recharge time is very high, 2 minutes or something, it can't become a contract spam fest. The attributes could be devided like this: an attribute to support hex professions (mesmers, necro), one for the offensive ones (possibly this could be balthasar, for warriors and ele's) and one for the healers and rangers, something with nature and being nice to people. As a profession exclusive attribute you could have skills to ensure that a contract stays on your team. the strategical part would be that the higher this is, the less points you can put in the contract, of course.

It's important to think out of the box, because most of the common professions in other games can be mixed and matched to be recreated with the current professions already.

Claymore · Oct 06, 2005, 01:41 PM // 13:41

Quote:

Originally Posted by Claymore

Ok instead on more classes, what if we changed the secondary class idea a bit. instead of another profession as a secondary, we choose a specializaton class OF the primary? say warrior/ beserker, or ranger/assasin, something to that effect. Instead of changing profession in the desert, you get to specialize in your primary class, or stick with your secondary.

Hence my original post of an idea on expanding or twisting the secondary profession slightly, My post on 2 handed swords as opposed to dual wielding was in response to someone elses post as a viable implementation idea of dual wielding.
If you are going to flame me for off topic posting, please make sure its an off topic post and not a response to anothers post.

Hanuman li Tosh · Oct 06, 2005, 03:40 PM // 15:40

i wanna see...
psionocist
ninja/assassin

kawaii_bat · Oct 06, 2005, 04:05 PM // 16:05

Hey!

a psion like proffession would actually be interesting considering the murssat and jade armors are very crystaline looking.

any thoughts on this?

Charcoal Ann · Oct 06, 2005, 04:11 PM // 16:11

Psion is one of the ideas i like. (yes i know D&D has it but D&D has everything under the sun).

basically they would be a disruption class of sorts i suppose. a caster of sorts.

kawaii_bat · Oct 06, 2005, 04:14 PM // 16:14

Quote:

Originally Posted by Charcoal Ann

Psion is one of the ideas i like. (yes i know D&D has it but D&D has everything under the sun).

basically they would be a disruption class of sorts i suppose. a caster of sorts.

It would also be interesting if you could mind control a character sometimes (very brief periods) and use/steal certain abilities

(pssst: DnD psion power leech feat)

Or make objects (such as dropped items and or weapons that you find) fly around and hit stuff as if the points in the attribute for that skill where a weapon mastery skill.

Ex (telekineses 12 = swordsmanship 12 when making a dropped sword float.)

asdar · Oct 06, 2005, 05:34 PM // 17:34

I think Psion is something like the class they'll do. I'm not saying it'll be called that or even be described that way.

What I see for the next class is another category of negative affect like conditions or hexes and another class of positive like stances/enchantments along with a new bar to look at.

We have health and Power and the hidden bar of adrenaline, I think there'll be another bar with maybe spirit or some such and the new class will attack that along with all the old classes getting new skills that alternatively attack or defend the new bar.

Xiombarg · Oct 07, 2005, 12:17 AM // 00:17

i would love to see a mind control class.. wow.. that would be awesome....

Rome.

Jenosavel · Oct 07, 2005, 12:55 AM // 00:55

Quote:

Originally Posted by Xiombarg

i would love to see a mind control class.. wow.. that would be awesome....

Rome.

I always thought Mesmer was the mind control class.

rocklimit · Oct 07, 2005, 06:13 AM // 06:13

Dual-wield would be awesome, they better have polearms and i hope somekind of a rogue class gets in there.

Tactical-Dillusions · Oct 07, 2005, 06:19 AM // 06:19

Duel wielding..hmm.
Imagine two swords with the same mods. Anet would have to either negate one of the weapons mods or provide new weapons for that class with only half the effectiveness on the mods.
What would happen if you had a fiery sword and an icy sword? Some serious balancing to be done but it sure sounds fun.

Dead Panda · Oct 07, 2005, 06:50 AM // 06:50

Should be a primarily a buffing class. Some good old pure buffing, maybe some speed buffing, and cast speed increasing spells and what not.

THINK OF THE POSSIBILTIES. D: